خادم رسول الله
The piercing star
in the name of Allah
Allah says :
( By the heaven and the Tarik (The Knocker) Ah, what will tell thee what the Tarik (The knocker) is! The piercing Star )
the holy Qura'n 86:1-3
1- The Knocker 's sound :
The piercing Star:
now the question is :
who tell the prophet Muhammad PUH about these scientific facts 1400 years ago ?????
أنقر(ي) فضلاً أدناه :
سُبحان الذي يـُطعـِمُ ولا يُطعَم ،
منّ علينا وهدانا ، و أعطانا و آوانا ،
وكلّ بلاء حسن أبلانا ،
الحمدُ لله حمداً حمداً ،
الحمدُ لله حمداً يعدلُ حمدَ الملائكة المُسبّحين ، و الأنبياء و المُرسلين ،
الحمدُ لله حمدًا كثيراً طيّبا مُطيّبا مُباركاً فيه ، كما يُحبّ ربّنا و يرضى ،
اللهمّ لكَ الحمدُ في أرضك ، ولك الحمدُ فوق سماواتك ،
لكَ الحمدُ حتّى ترضى ، ولكَ الحمدُ إذا رضيتَ ، ولكَ الحمدُ بعد الرضى ،
اللهمّ لك الحمدُ حمداً كثيراً يملأ السماوات العلى ، يملأ الأرض و مابينهما ،
تباركتَ ربّنا وتعالَيتَ .
member
Firstly, I'm impressed by your and other ability to read into what appears to be quite ambiguous verses from the Quran such in depth knowledge of astronomy.QuoteOriginally Posted by *اسلامي عزي*
in the name of Allah
Allah says :
( By the heaven and the Tarik (The Knocker) Ah, what will tell thee what the Tarik (The knocker) is! The piercing Star )
the holy Qura'n 86:1-3
1- The Knocker 's sound :
The piercing Star:
now the question is :
who tell the prophet Muhammad PUH about these scientific facts 1400 years ago ?????
Secondly, as the verses aren't exactly clear and I'm sure would be not be given serious consideration as scientific fact by any scientist today.
Thirdly... As there was a wealth of information on science in general... Including astronomy.. Long before the 6th century.. The possibility exists that if the chance exists somewhere in the world that knowledge was available.. Then you cannot rule out with any certainty that it was seen by people in Arabia during the lifetime of the prophet of I slam. Would you have us believe prophet Mohammed never left his home or interacted with other people... Some possibly well educated and well travelled.
the ancient Greeks were way ahead of the game in regards to science..the gospels had spread from Greece to Arabia before the 6th century so we know knowledge travelled.. I'm not saying prophet Mohammed came by information this way.. But he could have done.
Fourthly.. Personally ..these claims of scientific accuracy as some kind of proof of divinity of the Quran don't count for much. I am looking for spiritual guidance from scripture.. There are many "scientific" proofs also found in the Bible... Again I don't attach as much importance to them as I do to its spiritual guidance.
5 century astronomers
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1936PA.....44..180T
http://www.womanastronomer.com/hypatia.htm
I like the one on Hypatia.. Her being a woman and all... Way ahead of her time.
Peace.
محاور
As for your first and second claim I answer with the interpritation or tafseer as the people during those times saw it ( I think that would be fair):Quote
From the tafseer of ibn katheer :
The star of Ath-Thaqib.) Qatadah and others have said, "The star has been named Tariq because it is only seen at night and it is hidden during the day.'' His view is supported by what has been mentioned in the authentic Hadith that prohibits a man to come to his family Taruq. This means that he comes to them unexpectedly at nighttime. Concerning Allah's statement,
(Ath-Thaqib.) Ibn `Abbas said, "The illuminating.'' `Ikrimah said, "It is illuminating and it burns the Shaytan'
Ibn Abbas was the cousin of the prophet and Qatadah was one of his students so they are fairly old
To respond to your third point this kind of astronomy which records the sounds and the various kinds and shapes of stars did not exist till almost the late 19th century and the begining of the 20th century
However it is important to know that the arabs in the arabian penesula lived separately from roman influence . Yes there were caravans and trades but with arabs living in Syria . Also the cultural aspects of greece never reached Arabia . The arabs did not know plato and the other philosiphers nor did they care for such ideas .
خادم رسول الله
this is the wordy Pandora !QuoteI'm not saying prophet Mohammed came by information this way.. But he could have done.
always words without proofs !
was she a prophetess !????QuoteI like the one on Hypatia.. Her being a woman and all.Way ahead of her time.
she was a witch brutally tortured and murdered by the Christian monks !
.Quotethe situation reached a tragic conclusion when a band of Christian monks seized Hypatia on the street, beat her, and dragged her body to a church where they mutilated her flesh with sharp tiles and burned her remains
http://cosmopolis.com/people/hypatia.html
does Hypatia talk about the knocker the piercing star ??
if YES put the proof. please !
as you see in the video no one before the 20 century was aware of the knocker and the piercing star's presence !
PEACE.
أنقر(ي) فضلاً أدناه :
سُبحان الذي يـُطعـِمُ ولا يُطعَم ،
منّ علينا وهدانا ، و أعطانا و آوانا ،
وكلّ بلاء حسن أبلانا ،
الحمدُ لله حمداً حمداً ،
الحمدُ لله حمداً يعدلُ حمدَ الملائكة المُسبّحين ، و الأنبياء و المُرسلين ،
الحمدُ لله حمدًا كثيراً طيّبا مُطيّبا مُباركاً فيه ، كما يُحبّ ربّنا و يرضى ،
اللهمّ لكَ الحمدُ في أرضك ، ولك الحمدُ فوق سماواتك ،
لكَ الحمدُ حتّى ترضى ، ولكَ الحمدُ إذا رضيتَ ، ولكَ الحمدُ بعد الرضى ،
اللهمّ لك الحمدُ حمداً كثيراً يملأ السماوات العلى ، يملأ الأرض و مابينهما ،
تباركتَ ربّنا وتعالَيتَ .
member
yep.. As it pleases you to say. :)Quotethis is the wordy Pandora !
always words without proofs !
no she was a pagan.. And we all know how horribly pagans were treated by people of so called faith. Her religious belief or the fact she met an undeserved nasty end has nothing to do with the point I was making... That being their were many scientists ... Herself included.. discovering knew and wonderful things about the universe long before the sixth century. That none of this information apparently reached Arabia is what I find strange. Given the fact that the Arabic culture was one that embraced education and knowledge.... I find it even stranger.Quotewas she a prophetess !????
she was a witch brutally tortured and murdered by the Christian monks !
You choose to use her demise as a stick to beat the Christians with, like you somehow believe we are somehow responsible or condone this behaviour. You just do not seem to get it..These atrocities were not according to the teachings of Jesus. That's why do not see how actions such as this have nothing to do with Christianity.. Here's a thought you may relate to... As you belief when muslims kill innocent people through an act of cowardly terrorism you would say they do not represent Islam.. Do you get the point????
http://cosmopolis.com/people/hypatia.html
She may have done... If not her others may have done. Either way I'm not overly concerned, if you want to lay claim to scientific discoveries by today's standards from some ambiguous verses in the Quran that is you right and belief to do so. It doesn't convince me any.Quotedoes Hypatia talk about the knocker the piercing star ??
if YES put the proof. please !
as you see in the video no one before the 20 century was aware of the knocker and the piercing star's presence !
PEACE.
I don't watch videos... I think I mentioned that before.
Peace.
خادم رسول الله
I know .Quoteno she was a pagan
she is not a prophetess so you can not make a comparison between her and the Prophet Muhammad.
Maybe you mean people of so called love !QuoteAnd we all know how horribly pagans were treated by people of so called faith
Matthew 5 : 44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
but who committed this heinous crime is not an ordinary person !QuoteQuoteThese atrocities were not according to the teachings of JesusQuoteAs you belief when muslims kill innocent people through an act of cowardly terrorism you would say they do not represent Islam.
they are christians monks ( people of love ) .
maybe you think they do not represent christianity too !
i'll repeat it again : we want proofs not words !QuoteShe may have done
PEACE.
أنقر(ي) فضلاً أدناه :
سُبحان الذي يـُطعـِمُ ولا يُطعَم ،
منّ علينا وهدانا ، و أعطانا و آوانا ،
وكلّ بلاء حسن أبلانا ،
الحمدُ لله حمداً حمداً ،
الحمدُ لله حمداً يعدلُ حمدَ الملائكة المُسبّحين ، و الأنبياء و المُرسلين ،
الحمدُ لله حمدًا كثيراً طيّبا مُطيّبا مُباركاً فيه ، كما يُحبّ ربّنا و يرضى ،
اللهمّ لكَ الحمدُ في أرضك ، ولك الحمدُ فوق سماواتك ،
لكَ الحمدُ حتّى ترضى ، ولكَ الحمدُ إذا رضيتَ ، ولكَ الحمدُ بعد الرضى ،
اللهمّ لك الحمدُ حمداً كثيراً يملأ السماوات العلى ، يملأ الأرض و مابينهما ،
تباركتَ ربّنا وتعالَيتَ .
member
I was not making any comparison... I simply chose her at random as an example that many people hundreds of years before the birth of prophet Mohammed were making scientific discoveries. You as usual are trying to make my words say something they do not.QuoteI know .
she is not a prophetess so you can not make a comparison between her and the Prophet Muhammad
Whatever works for you... Love and faith go hand in hand for a Christian.QuoteMaybe you mean people of so called love !
Matthew 5 : 44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Hang on a minute... Do you somehow think now that Christian monks are not ordinary people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you believe good people can commit sin? To answer your question... Again.. NO... THEY CEASE TO BE CHRISTIAN WHERE IT MATTERS.. IN THEIR HEART, AS SOON AS THEY ACT CONTRARY TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS.. They like you and like me and EVERY person on this earth will answer for THEIR sin at judgement.Quotebut who committed this heinous crime is not an ordinary person !
they are christians monks ( people of love ) .
maybe you think they do not represent christianity too !
Thats me out of this thread..Quotei'll repeat it again : we want proofs not words !
PEACE.
محاور
I think this tafseer proves the point of brother اسلامي عزيQuote
new member
Even if all this Quranic ambiguity were pointing to supernatural scientific facts such as knockers, what makes you think the information came from God? Satan and demons have been around way before man and knows scientific facts way beyond the knowledge of man even until this day.Quotethis is the wordy Pandora !
always words without proofs !
was she a prophetess !????
she was a witch brutally tortured and murdered by the Christian monks !
.
http://cosmopolis.com/people/hypatia.html
does Hypatia talk about the knocker the piercing star ??
if YES put the proof. please !
as you see in the video no one before the 20 century was aware of the knocker and the piercing star's presence !
PEACE.
Is this a ploy of yours to convince us that Islam's prophet is my Creator's spokesman? I'll tell you the same I say to Mormons, Mormon prophet Joseph Smith is not the last prophet or seal of prophets for me.
Prophet Smith works for the Mormons and Prophet Muhammad works for Muslims, but they don't work for me. Only Jesus works for me, and He is claimed to be one of the foundations for Islam and a main foundation for Mormonism, but Mormons twist the Scriptures and write with their own hands just as Jehovah Witnesses do with their pen. We know Jesus is the only truth, and we know what has been added to our Scripture and taken away, because we didn't burn our copies!!!
Peace
محاور
Quote
And what makes you think what christianity claims (trinity ) does not come from satan
Jesus does not work fro you it is paul who works for you :
Be ye followers of me… that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you. (1 Corinthians 11:1)
While jesus peace be upon him says:
“If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” (John 8:31)
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