Response on doctrine of the Trinity:

[مصطفى الحداد (محارب النصارى)]

In the name of Allah
Peace, mercy and blessings of Allah
I was read the christian doctrine (Doctrine of the Trinity), then i was examined & reading lot about this subject, then i was written a response for this lie:

Response on doctrine of the Trinity:
First: Allah is one, and christians believe this, so how became one is three?!
Second: Perfection is one of the attributes of God, and christians believed this, if Allah need to becoming another person, so he have a shortage! but Allah hasn't shortage!
Third: Allah said about himself: {he is god in the sky and he is god in the ground}, the meaning of this: he remains a god when he downing in the lowest heaven in the late night, not becoming Jesus or other.
Fourth: Can father becoming his son? if he can do that, so with christians say about Jesus: "He was put on the cross and been throwing stones and was killed", if Allah is becoming Jesus in sometimes, how he alive to this time? (He is Alive for ever), christians know: if Allah has been sleep for one second, heavens & ground will destroy, so how these are exists to this time & Allah is dead (Sanctify about this)?!
Fifth: This lie was not saying in the Bible but just in two positions in it:
First: Matthew chapter twenty-eighth: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"!!!!!
but this position it wasn't say in Catholic copy in the last age!!
Second: Book of first message of John: "who is in heaven three Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one"!!!!!
This position was not saying in the Bible but just in the arabian copy of the Bible!!! and not in the english copies!!!
Here the english and greek copies who removed the text carefully:
Complete Jewish Bible CJB
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 There are three witnesses
Holman Christian Standard Bible CSB
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 For there are three that testify
The English Darby Bible DBY
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 For they that bear witness are three
ENGLISH STANDARD VERSION ESV
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 For there are three that testify
GOD'S WORD translation GWN
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 There are three witnesses
The New American Bible NAB
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 So there are three that testify
The NET Bible, Version 1.0 NET
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 For there are three that testify
New Jerusalem Bible NJB
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 So there are three witnesses
New Living Translation, second edition NLT
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 So we have these three witnesses
New Revised Standard Version Bible NRS
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 There are three that testify

Use it words in Advice, and invite to me.

[Burninglight]

Quote

In the name of Allah
Peace, mercy and blessings of Allah
I was read the christian doctrine (Doctrine of the Trinity), then i was examined & reading lot about this subject, then i was written a response for this lie:

Response on doctrine of the Trinity:
First: Allah is one, and christians believe this, so how became one is three?!
Second: Perfection is one of the attributes of God, and christians believed this, if Allah need to becoming another person, so he have a shortage! but Allah hasn't shortage!
Third: Allah said about himself: {he is god in the sky and he is god in the ground}, the meaning of this: he remains a god when he downing in the lowest heaven in the late night, not becoming Jesus or other.
Fourth: Can father becoming his son? if he can do that, so with christians say about Jesus: "He was put on the cross and been throwing stones and was killed", if Allah is becoming Jesus in sometimes, how he alive to this time? (He is Alive for ever), christians know: if Allah has been sleep for one second, heavens & ground will destroy, so how these are exists to this time & Allah is dead (Sanctify about this)?!
Fifth: This lie was not saying in the Bible but just in two positions in it:
First: Matthew chapter twenty-eighth: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"!!!!!
but this position it wasn't say in Catholic copy in the last age!!
Second: Book of first message of John: "who is in heaven three Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one"!!!!!
This position was not saying in the Bible but just in the arabian copy of the Bible!!! and not in the english copies!!!
Here the english and greek copies who removed the text carefully:
Complete Jewish Bible CJB
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 There are three witnesses
Holman Christian Standard Bible CSB
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 For there are three that testify
The English Darby Bible DBY
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 For they that bear witness are three
ENGLISH STANDARD VERSION ESV
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 For there are three that testify
GOD'S WORD translation GWN
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 There are three witnesses
The New American Bible NAB
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 So there are three that testify
The NET Bible, Version 1.0 NET
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 For there are three that testify
New Jerusalem Bible NJB
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 So there are three witnesses
New Living Translation, second edition NLT
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 So we have these three witnesses
New Revised Standard Version Bible NRS
Acronym translator:
John 5:7 There are three that testify

Use it words in Advice, and invite to me.

We know about those interpolations because we didn't have a Christian Uthman to burn our original copied manuscripts

[مصطفى الحداد (محارب النصارى)]

Hi Burninglight, i'm sorry, but i did not understand what you mean.

[pandora]

Quote

Hi Burninglight, i'm sorry, but i did not understand what you mean.

You should not use John 5:7 as proof of the trinity because it is an interpolation that is not found in the earliest of manuscripts. Christian scholars found this out many years ago because we have a wealth of manuscripts to show what was possibly interpolated later. It was widely thought.. As it showed up in some manuscripts as a note.. Possibly of explanation, in the margin.. Over time it was found to be added at the end.

This is not new stuff. The concept of the trinity in the Bible is simply a doctrine developed by years of study of the Bible as a whole. It's not Biblical, and you won't find the word "Trinity" found there. The concept, however is.

Just because you don't understand something or don't believe it doesn't make it a lie. The Trinity makes perfect sense in presenting Gods nature.... The Bible shows us YHWH is a God who seeks community with His creation... A God of love. Who demonstrated the greatest act of agape love towards us.. His sometimes undeserving creation. It may be difficult if not impossible to explain within the bounds of human logic... But that does not mean it is irrational .. But just that we do not have the capacity to know all God is.

Peace.

[Burninglight]

Quote

Hi Burninglight, i'm sorry, but i did not understand what you mean.

No need for apologies. What I meant was you are pointing out things that were added to the Bible that were not a part of the original manuscripts and scholars agree with these interpolations and so do I. The point is when someone adds or takes away from the Bible we always can find out what has been added or taken away. And God said anyone who adds to the Bible will be punished with added plague and anyone who takes away will have taken from them their portion of the tree of life.

Muslims cannot prove wholesale corruption of the Bible nor can they prove the perfect preservation of the Quran. We know God's word was given in the torah and gospel. The only gospel we have is according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It is enough and God allowed that to be what we have in possession. To these we hold fast.

[مصطفى الحداد (محارب النصارى)]

Who said that?!
I can response on every words in the Bible, do you need i to do that?
We can confirmation brought by the Quran is true, do you need i to do that?
Have you read the Quran in the past?
Read the Quran then say what you said!
Mrs. Pandora, you have confirmed the Christian religion is trifling.
the God is not a love, the God is a God, if you dont know what is the God's recipes, so you shouldn't talking about God as you like!
The Trinity is false and void, if you don't believes with legitimate guides, so you should using a mental guides.
Are you understand?

[pandora]

Quote

Mrs. Pandora, you have confirmed the Christian religion is trifling.
the God is not a love, the God is a God, if you dont know what is the God's recipes, so you shouldn't talking about God as you like!
The Trinity is false and void, if you don't believes with legitimate guides, so you should using a mental guides.
Are you understand?

Greetings, your post proves to me why I should not be Muslim. Maybe Allah is not love, and for sure there is little of love towards Allah in the Quran. I think you truly do believe that what you show to Allah is love but it seems to be that you measure this love by your own understanding of what you think love is... Understandable if Allah has not told you you are loved, or has not demonstrated this love towards you.. How then will you know the standard God sets for love? There are suras that show the conditional love of Allah that is more an expression of approval than love.. That Allah loves those who do good, and has no love for those who do evil. Yet, even to gain this approval you still have no guarantee. Do muslims truly show agape love towards Allah? Or is this love born out of a need for Allah's approval or fear of Allah's wrath if you get it wrong?

I do not talk of God of the Bible as I like, I talk of God as He has been revealed to me in the Bible.. Through the Prophets, who spoke and demonstrated His love, and through Christ Jesus through whom we experience in part what Gods love truly means. I'm not sure why you bring in the Trinity.. Again.. It obviously bothers you.. Yet why it should concern you so as you do not believe it anyway is beyond my understanding. Although of course the Trinity does in fact demonstrate Gods love perfectly. For God, His Word and Spirit exist in a perfect community of love, we are a reflection of this. Our need to love and be loved is an intrinsic part of our being which is reflected in the trinity. How does a unitary being know love.. Let alone demonstrate it towards others?

Prophet Moses said... "What does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul". Deuteronomy 10:12

To walk in His ways... To love Him.. To serve Him with all our hearts and souls.. We can only do this because we know God is so worthy of this and more, that we are joyful to love God thus, everything we do must reflect this love.. Not to earn Gods love, because we know we already have that... But to return it in kind. Our love towards God cannot be born of our own hopes of any rewards and needs for future forgiveness.. But has to be freely given.

Jesus reaffirmed this message... "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment." Matthew 22:37-38

The second great commandment .. Was to love other as we love ourselves..



"And this is love, that we follow his commandments; this is the commandment, as you have heard from the beginning, that you follow love." 2 John 6

Truly faithful obedience is born of love, to follow Gods commandments out of love rather than fear.

There is nothing trifling about Gods divine love, it's because of Gods love the world turns and we live and breathe. It's because of Gods agape love for us that we shall share in the glorious community that is God for eternity. All the Prophets knew of this love that is God.. Why did Prophet Mohammed understand this most important facet of God? When I see your posts it saddens me that you don't see this most important point of how important love is to mankind.. Nothing bad can come from love.. Only good. Think on that.

Peace, blessings and love I extend to you.

[Burninglight]

Quote

Greetings, your post proves to me why I should not be Muslim. Maybe Allah is not love, and for sure there is little of love towards Allah in the Quran. I think you truly do believe that what you show to Allah is love but it seems to be that you measure this love by your own understanding of what you think love is... Understandable if Allah has not told you you are loved, or has not demonstrated this love towards you.. How then will you know the standard God sets for love? There are suras that show the conditional love of Allah that is more an expression of approval than love.. That Allah loves those who do good, and has no love for those who do evil. Yet, even to gain this approval you still have no guarantee. Do muslims truly show agape love towards Allah? Or is this love born out of a need for Allah's approval or fear of Allah's wrath if you get it wrong?

I do not talk of God of the Bible as I like, I talk of God as He has been revealed to me in the Bible.. Through the Prophets, who spoke and demonstrated His love, and through Christ Jesus through whom we experience in part what Gods love truly means. I'm not sure why you bring in the Trinity.. Again.. It obviously bothers you.. Yet why it should concern you so as you do not believe it anyway is beyond my understanding. Although of course the Trinity does in fact demonstrate Gods love perfectly. For God, His Word and Spirit exist in a perfect community of love, we are a reflection of this. Our need to love and be loved is an intrinsic part of our being which is reflected in the trinity. How does a unitary being know love.. Let alone demonstrate it towards others?

Prophet Moses said... "What does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul". Deuteronomy 10:12

To walk in His ways... To love Him.. To serve Him with all our hearts and souls.. We can only do this because we know God is so worthy of this and more, that we are joyful to love God thus, everything we do must reflect this love.. Not to earn Gods love, because we know we already have that... But to return it in kind. Our love towards God cannot be born of our own hopes of any rewards and needs for future forgiveness.. But has to be freely given.

Jesus reaffirmed this message... "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment." Matthew 22:37-38

The second great commandment .. Was to love other as we love ourselves..



"And this is love, that we follow his commandments; this is the commandment, as you have heard from the beginning, that you follow love." 2 John 6

Truly faithful obedience is born of love, to follow Gods commandments out of love rather than fear.

There is nothing trifling about Gods divine love, it's because of Gods love the world turns and we live and breathe. It's because of Gods agape love for us that we shall share in the glorious community that is God for eternity. All the Prophets knew of this love that is God.. Why did Prophet Mohammed understand this most important facet of God? When I see your posts it saddens me that you don't see this most important point of how important love is to mankind.. Nothing bad can come from love.. Only good. Think on that.

Peace, blessings and love I extend to you.

Very good post here. God's Love never fails. Jesus said greater love has no man than to lay down his life for a friend. That is exactly what Jesus did for us even while we were His enemies; therefore, our God proves to us that His love for us is without condition.

[مصطفى الحداد (محارب النصارى)]

Ok Mrs. Pandora:
For First Paragraph: I said: "God is not love", i mean: God isn't only love, we muslims love our god too much, and he love us, Islam is religion calls to love, but not love only, but the christian religion calls only to love and safe, but it don't said what christians will to work in they life.
For what's Allah loves: Allah loves all muslims, good man, bad man, etc... but he don't love any man from other religions, for anyone who do evil: he said: "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves do not despair of the mercy of Allah that Allah forgives all sins".
For your questions: "Do muslims truly show agape love towards Allah?": If we don't love Allah for his graces, we love he for his commands, but he did lot of things who make our loves he too much.
Now, if you will not think carefully, i was written this subject for muslims who talking with christians, Are you muslim? No? So exit this subject and talking with me in message or other subjects, concept? I'm ready to that.

[pandora]

Quote

Ok Mrs. Pandora:
For First Paragraph: I said: "God is not love", i mean: God isn't only love, we muslims love our god too much, and he love us, Islam is religion calls to love, but not love only, but the christian religion calls only to love and safe, but it don't said what christians will to work in they life.

Then you should say what you mean. You imply that Christianity is somehow weakened by its emphasis on love, whereas the opposite is true. Love is the purest, and strongest force imaginable. Nothing can fail in love all good is born out of love.

Quote

For what's Allah loves: Allah loves all muslims, good man, bad man, etc... but he don't love any man from other religions, for anyone who do evil: he said: "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves do not despair of the mercy of Allah that Allah forgives all sins".

This is your belief... Which differs from mine. YHWH.. Loves all who submit to Him as the One True God. Because YHWH is bigger and greater than His creation.. YHWH does not need us. It is us who need YHWH... We know nothing we can do by our own efforts can make us righteous before YHWH. It is by grace alone that we be saved.

Quote

For your questions: "Do muslims truly show agape love towards Allah?": If we don't love Allah for his graces, we love he for his commands, but he did lot of things who make our loves he too much.
Now, if you will not think carefully, i was written this subject for muslims who talking with christians, Are you muslim? No? So exit this subject and talking with me in message or other subjects, concept? I'm ready to that.

Muslims talking with Christians?? I do not understand am I not a Christian? Or are you saying you would prefer me not to contribute to this dialogue? If so that is fine by me. Your wish.

peace to you.