Response on doctrine of the Trinity:

[Burninglight]

What" bad words" have I said about or on your prophet in this forum? If you cannot proof this, you are falsely accusing me. I am not trying to hush you either. In fact, there is not enough dialogue on this forum for me. Most of my post go unchallenged, and it is too slow waiting for my post to meet moderator's approval and sometimes they don't post all of what I write.

[مصطفى الحداد (محارب النصارى)]

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What do you mean by evidence? Do you want me to post a number of Bible verses in support of the Trinity? To what purpose..? If I asked you to give me evidence that God was a unitary being as the Quran implies by the concept of tawheed how would you offer me evidence of that fact? Would you quote verses from the Quran in support of this doctrine? Don't you see that in itself is not "evidence" of an independent nature. I was seeking to explain to you in fairly simple terms how Christians view the trinity and why it makes more sense than God being a unitary being. It has nothing to do with the ONENESS of God.. God is and always has been ONE. That ONENESS has not been affected by the concept of trinity.. I cannot explain your misconceptions you hold about the trinity and no matter how much I say or what evidence I bring from the Bible that the trinity is nothing like the Quran claims it to be will not help you. These misconceptions are your own.

But I guess you've not read this anyway as you have already decided that I have nothing to say of any value.. Maybe you are a misogynist at heart I do not know your reasons. No matter. I wish you well and will pray for God to guide you to His light and truth.

Peace.

No, Mrs. Pandora! How can you give me evidence from the bible? i don't believe it! How i can give you evidence from the Quran? you don't believe it!
So: There was only one thing, it's "Evidence from mind", ok? i want you to give me evidence from mind, and you can compare the Quranic verses with Bible verses, to we looking which is more deserving be followed, in short: we should make a debate.
do you want to start?

[Burninglight]

So, you don't believe in the torah and gospel your god said he sent down? Your prophet did and used the torah to judge a woman caught in adultery. Do you know something that Islam's prophet didn't know about the Scriptures that came before? Can you show me where it says you shouldn't believe in the torah or gospel. The Scriptures we received tell us to reject Islam's message, but can you show me where it states in the Quran that you should reject the Scriptures that came before? If not, you have no justification for your words, but we do!
Peace

[pandora]

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No, Mrs. Pandora! How can you give me evidence from the bible? i don't believe it! How i can give you evidence from the Quran? you don't believe it!
So: There was only one thing, it's "Evidence from mind", ok? i want you to give me evidence from mind, and you can compare the Quranic verses with Bible verses, to we looking which is more deserving be followed, in short: we should make a debate.
do you want to start?

Very well Sir.. Do you have a particular verse you would like to compare.. What about ...

Deuteronomy 19:21 (ESV)
21 Your eye shall not pity. It shall be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.


Matthew 5:38–48 (ESV)
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic,...

From your other post I have the impression that you feel under Islam you are justified in personally taking revenge in kind for a wrong done against your person. Do you not see this is not Gods way? Ask yourself in truth where does an act of revenge take you? Is it not the more noble way to forgive ones enemy? Someone hurts you.. You hurt them back.. Their family become involved in the hurting so your family come to your aid and continue the hurting... And so it goes on. Until there is so much hurt the original cause is forgotten so intent has everyone become in the need for revenge. I will explain what Christians take from the "eye for an eye message.. Of course not all people are able to see the simplicity and need for forgiveness of ones enemies and how it brings one closer in relationship to God, because if God has forgiveness enough for all those who wrong Him and repent then should not we emulate this most noble of behaviours? We see Jesus in Matthew was correcting the Pharisees who had taken the law God had given them and abused its purpose.. Hence Jesus says.. "You heard it said" ( referring to the law as it was originally given) then he said "but I say to you" meaning he was correcting the errors man had allowed to creep into the principle of this law.

"Eye for eye, tooth for tooth" was spoken by God as a figurative command in the Old Testament .. See Deuteronomy verse above ... It was never intended to be taken literally. Instead, it means that secular justice is to be fair, neither excessively harsh nor excessively lenient. Also, before God first spoke this, He established a judicial system to hear claims and determine penalties, and that system would not have been necessary if simple "eye for eye" retribution were proper and adequate. Moreover, most actual claims and harms in the Old Testament, except those requiring capital punishment, were settled by payment in goods.


The three times in the Old Testament where the phrase "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"is mentioned all relate to a civil situation, something being judged before a constituted authority... a judge, a magistrate, etc. "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth" is not a statement that is in any way related to personal relationships. However, that’s precisely what the Pharisees had done with it. They took a divine principle for the courts, and they made it a matter of daily vendettas.


In knowing the hearts of the Pharisees, Jesus turned this phrase completely around. Jesus says in Matthew 5:38-48.."You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you…" Here Jesus was giving a new command that made perfect the Old Testament law. We are not to seek retribution, not to demand recompense for wrongs done to us. Jesus taught that as His followers we are to ignore all personal insults, which is the meaning of turning the other cheek. Christians are to give more of material goods, time, or labor than demanded of us, even if the demands are wrongful.. to loan to those who want to borrow... to love our enemies... and to pray for those who persecute us.


The basis for this radically different way of dealing with one another underscores the radically different lifestyle of the true follower of Christ. But this is in no way to be taken as prohibiting self-defense or protecting someone from being harmed by others. The rights of police officers and the military to protect the innocent and preserve the peace are not in question here. Turning the other cheek applies to personal relationships and involves primarily not seeking to defend ourselves against personal insults. Not to take the Law into our own hands in the name of personal revenge.


Accept my apologies if this post is long, and I hope you can understand what I say here..

Peace upon you.

[Burninglight]

Jesus knew that an eye for an eye would make the world blind. Those that adhere to an eye for an eye are blind, because they don't know Jesus and cannot see who God is.

[pandora]

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Jesus knew that an eye for an eye would make the world blind. Those that adhere to an eye for an eye are blind, because they don't know Jesus and cannot see who God is.

People become trapped in a vicious circle of revenge. It's evident if one looks at the state of turmoil in many parts of the world where vengeance plays a part indiscriminate violence is not far behind. Neither are pleasing to God. There is one who revels in such discord and hatred... We know who that is and is the enemy of God and all that is truth.

blessings upon you.. BL