Tawhid in the Holy Bible and Islam

[bahiraomar]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Brothers, we christians believe in ONE Allah. But He is NOT iIslamic allah. Our God is TRI-UNITED. Allahu Wahid. Hua Babba Allah wa Ibn Allah wa Ruh Al Qudus.

Why do we believe that Ibn Allah are equal to His Father?

My brother Sazie Johnson said:
This is a challenge from me (Sazie Johnson) to all Muslims in this forum. After this you may never want to speak to me again.
At the heart of Christianity is the Holy Trinity which you continuously challenge. At the heart of Islam is the “oneness of Allah which I am now challenging. If you think the Holy Trinity is hard to explain, try explaining the “Oneness of Allah”.
Quran 112 reads, “Say: He is Allah, the One and Only. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.”
First we must know that Science has dealt a damaging blow to Islam. The “Oneness of Allah” is at stake here; so too is the “Oneness of the earth”.
Science has made it cleared that because something or someone is a numerical one, it does not mean that it does not have multiplicity or plurality within itself. To proof this assumption, Science says this about earth: “She is one and only. She does not beget the likeness of herself. There is none elsewhere like her.”
While those words are also spoken about Allah, here Science, after much studies and observations, has attributed the same words and thoughts to earth: The earth is one, unique, incompatible, source and sustainer of life in our Solar System. That is not the only similarities between Allah and the earth. Allah has a mind to think and to reason, earth has the artificial intelligence to grow what it may in certain areas and to kill what it may in certain areas. That is why in all the ways that might be imagine, Allah and the earth are “totally alone” in their spheres of influence.
But the earth, with all its minerals and chemical compositions, is not “totally alone” within itself. In fact even though earth is one, unique, incompatible, source and sustainer of life in our Solar System, earth has multiplicity or plurality within itself. It has rivers which are not the same as trees. But yet earth is one and is not comparable to anything we know of just as Allah is one and is not comparable to anything we know of. The two are the same in their total aloneness.
Here is the challange: Can you separate the “Oneness of Allah” from the “Oneness of earth” with and by illustrations? Can you show us something that is a “one with and within itself” and has no multiplicity or plurality within itself?
To help you understand the question, here are some examples of trinity: Pure Light is an example of a trinity. It is made of green, red, and yellow lights. Atom is an example of a trinity. It is made of three sub-atomic particles: Protons, electrons, and neutrons. Time is an example of a trinity: It is expressed in past, present, and future. Matter is an example of a trinity. It reveals itself in solid, liquid, and gas.
Question: What do you mean by “Total Oneness of Allah”? Give examples in nature in the same way there are examples of the Holy Trinity in nature.

Oh, I almost forget. If you are incapable of answering the challenge, feel free to respond by insulting me —telling me how I am stupid and how I am going to hell; or better yet, tell me Allah is the creator of earth. And I will tell you this: “According to science earth creates new fungi and alga daily.”
Again, the question is this: What do you mean by “Total Oneness of Allah”? Give examples in nature in the same way there are examples of the Holy Trinity in nature.
It you think the Holy Trinity is hard to explain, try explaining the “Oneness of Allah”. Oh, like I said, feel free to respond by insulting me.

[bahiraomar]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
Brothers, I offer you to read my conversation with Kamal and Walid on the Trinity issue:

‘Trinity’or in other words TRI-UNITY is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. How is it possible? Yes, it is possible because God is NOT a human being. He is the supreme Being. Even Arab nation is one but you Kamal is an Arab and your son is an Arab and your father is also son of an Arab man. But the Arab nation is ONE. Because you all are united by common features and origin. There is no such word ‘trinity’ in the Bible but there is the concept represented by the word “Trinity”in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun “Elohim” is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word “Elohim” and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. The Hebrew word for “God,” “Elohim,” definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus’ baptism. During the baptism of Jesus the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17 ). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit! Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe. Yes, Kamal, Jesus is Kalimat-ullah and He created the universe and people! (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus’ works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God! The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. But the picture is not entirely accurate because an infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

Kamal, look what Jesus said: (John 10:30)

I (Jesus) and the Father are one.”

Walid Saifaddin Ashoor said:

The question that raises itself is: You have 3 Gods, yet your Gods refer to themselves as “I” and not “We”, and then when you add the virgin Mary you now have Four Gods, yet still I and not WE. In addition, you now have 3 Gods that are HE and one God that is SHE, yet still I and not We. So Four Gods, yet still I, but what kind of I ? An I that is 3 He’s + 1 She?


– We do believe that God is ONE. He is tri-united and acting in UNITY. But why? Because God REVEALED us that on the pages of His Holy Scripture! The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God! But we do not worship mother of Jesus Mary, because if we would do it, it would be considered by God as an idol worship and sin. She is just woman and NOT God!

Who is Ibn Allah?

Al Qur'an and the Holy Bible said that He is the Word of God- Kalimat-Ullah. Let's read about Him:

ﻳﻮﺣﻨﺎ 1

1 فِي الْبَدْءِ كَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ، وَالْكَلِمَةُ كَانَ عِنْدَ اللهِ. وَكَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ هُوَ اللهُ .

2 هُوَ كَانَ فِي الْبَدْءِ عِنْدَ اللهِ.

3 بِهِ تَكَوَّنَ كُلُّ شَيْءٍ، وَبِغَيْرِهِ لَمْ يَتَكَوَّنْ أَيُّ شَيْءٍ مِمَّا تَكَوَّنَ.

4 فِيهِ كَانَتِ الْحَيَاةُ. وَالْحَيَاةُ هَذِهِ كَانَتِ نُورَ النَّاسِ.

5 وَالنُّورُ يُضِيءُ فِي الظَّلاَمِ، وَالظَّلاَمُ لَمْ يُدْرِكْ النُّورَ.
14 وَالْكَلِمَةُ صَارَ بَشَراً، وَخَيَّمَ بَيْنَنَا، وَنَحْنُ رَأَيْنَا مَجْدَهُ، مَجْدَ ابْنٍ وَحِيدٍ عِنْدَ الآبِ، وَهُوَ مُمْتَلِىءٌ بِالنِّعْمَةِ وَالْحَقِّ.

It means that Ibn Allah was incarnated in the human body but He lived always with His Father and He created all visible and invisible worlds.
It means He is the Creator of everything...all stars and planets and even people!

[السيف البتار]

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we christians believe in ONE Allah. But He is NOT iIslamic allah.

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Our God is TRI-UNITED

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I use the word Allah in Arabic as an equivalent of the word God.

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we christians believe in ONE Allah

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Why do we believe that Ibn Allah are equal to His Father ?

Ibn Allah+His Father=2




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بِسْمِ اللّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ

قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ ﴿112/1﴾ اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ ﴿112/2﴾ لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ ﴿112/3﴾ وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ ﴿112/4﴾

عندما تتكلمي عن القرآن تكلمي بالعربية لأن لغات العالم غير قادرة على استيعاب اللغة العربية لأنها أكبر وأعظم لغات العالم .

there is a big different between

واحد :::: و :::: أحد

واحد : تعني واحد بلا ثاني

أحد : تعني واحد بلا تعدد .. فلا هو "كل" ولا هو "كلي"

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At the heart of Islam is the “oneness of Allah which I am now challenging.

so u not believe allah one

earth must contain sand + water + ...... etc to be earth
but allah never need thing to be allah

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To help you understand the question, here are some examples of trinity: Pure Light is an example of a trinity. It is made of green, red, and yellow lights. Atom is an example of a trinity. It is made of three sub-atomic particles: Protons, electrons, and neutrons. Time is an example of a trinity: It is expressed in past, present, and future. Matter is an example of a trinity. It reveals itself in solid, liquid, and gas.

and also the Cow has three words is an example of a trinity
and also 2+1=3 is an example of a trinity

and 3x1=3 is an example of a trinity

and 4-1=3 is an example of a trinity

and also shampoo 3x1 is an example of a trinity



So , u believe that your god must be like Atom or eny thing else .... very good , congratulation

look to the upper side of this photo, inside adds-ababa church draw your three gods of christian

also see trinity in phillippines church

so u believe that the three person is one

[wisam83]

انا لا اعلم ما المشكلة عند المسلمين بالثالوث

اولا نحن لا نؤمن بثلاثة الهة بل نحن موحدين

وانتم عندكم 99 اسما لله هل يعني انكم تعبدون 99 اله؟!؟

ونحن ببساطة نقول نقول ان الله هو واحد لا شريك له لكنه ظهر لنا بصورة يسوع وبصورة الروح القدس هل هناك اي تعقيد في ذلك

اظن انكم انتم من تعقدون هذا الموضوع ولكنه غير معقد البته مع احترامي

[m.n]

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Brothers, we christians believe in ONE AllahThis shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit!Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God).

[bahiraomar]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Brothers, we Christians believe in ONE God. But He is tri-united.
Let me repeat: Allahu Wahid. Hua Babba Allah wa Ibn Allah wa Ruh Al Qudus.
Ibn Allah is Equal to the Father and Ruh Al Qudus!
How to understand it?
The formula should be such: 1x1x1=1
Allahu Wahid.
God created people in His Image sayds the Holy Taurat/Torah!
That’s why I am Bahira and ana wahid! But I am NOT wahid! Why? Because I am THREE ( I am body, soul and spirit). When my body will die, my soul will not die and it will be judged by Jesus. Do you know that Islam say that Jesus is the Judge?
If I am not only body, why I am going in UNITY to the shop to buy bread? Why my soul does not sleep at hope but crosses the street to get to the shop too! But even in shop my soul is with my body? Where is my soul? My souls dwells in my body! Is my soul my body? No!!!
The same way God is ONE. God the Father is equal to Ibn Allah but they Ibn Allah is God and His Father is God (like my soul and my body are separate and at the same time united).
Jesus lived in the body on earth? But was He body? No. He dwelled in the body like my soul is dwelling in my body. But who is He? He is Ibn Allah who created the universe and everything. He is Kalimat-Ullah and He dwelled in the body. Was He body? No. Hua Allah. His nature/essence is divine! He is Immortal and almighty Creator of EVERYTHING.

Why did He dwell in the body on earth? To be killed willingly and accept all our sins to His HOLY body to make us FREE of our sins/holy people. He suffered instead of us to give us eternal life. Because God said that punishment for sin is DEATH. And He was judged by His Father for millions of our crimes/sins He accepted to His body on the cross.
He is our Allah who will judge all of us soon. Be ready!



Bahira

[m.n]

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There is SUBORDINATION within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the "Son" is SUBORDINATE to the "Father".Ibn Allah is Equal to the Father and Ruh Al Qudus

AMAZING

[عبد الرحيم1]

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AMAZING

Can't understand ?!, It's simple and logic.

[m.n]

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Can't understand ?!, It's simple and logic.

SORRY DEAR BROTHER FORGIVE MY POOR "ISLAMIC" MIND WHICH IS UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND SUCH THEORIES

[bahiraomar]

Salam brothers and Muhammad,

Why Ibn Allah is equal to Allah? Because they have divine nature/essense.

Bahira