Trinity and the analogy of the sun and Family (1+1+1=1)

[Authentic Man]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته


1+1+1 = 1 **** 1x1x1=1 **** 1x3= 1

Trinitarians often like to claim that they have a monotheistic belief, and that the Trinity is not the worship of 3 Gods rather it is the worship of One God.
Basically they say the Trinity doctrine is as follow:
1- God is made up of 3 persons
2- The three persons are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
3- All three persons are distinct from each other, The Father is not the Son, nor is the Son the Father etc.
4- Each person in the Trinity has a role of their own
5- Jesus is the Son in the Trinity
Basically, that is the dogma of the Trinity.
Now let us show exactly why Christians do in fact worship three God's. As I said, the Trinity is made up of THREE people; these three people are all different.

Let us even make it simpler for people:

Muslim: Is Jesus God?
Christian: Yes
Muslim: Is Jesus the Father?
Christian: No
Muslim: Is the Father God?
Christian: Yes
Muslim: Is The Father Jesus?
Christian: No
Muslim: So these are 2 different persons?
Christian: Yes, 2 distinct different persons
Muslim: And both are God?
Christian: Yes
Muslim: Is the Holy Spirit God?
Christian: Yes
Muslim: Is the Holy Spirit the Father or Jesus?
Christian: No, the Holy Spirit is not
Muslim: So Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God?
Christian: Yes
Muslim: And these are three different persons?
Christian: Yes
Muslim: So you have three persons, each one is God, how many is that?
Christian: Three, opppssss !!!!!!!!!!!! no no!!!!! I meant One!

It cannot get any simpler than that, Trinitarians worship THREE Gods and they can’t deny it.

Now ofcourse Trinitarians have come up with dozens and dozens of laughable analogies to make sense of the Trinity, however so my favorite analogy Christians bring up to make sense of the Trinity is the Family analogy.
However it’s against the Bible:

Isa 46:5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?

The family analogy basically says this:
A Family is made up of more than one member, a Father, Mother, and Son. Yet the family is one family and not three families, the same with Trinity.
This is my favorite analogy, and it is one of the most deceptive analogies. The family statement is true, a family is made up of 2 or more persons, a typical basic family is a Husband, Wife, and son.
But here is the problem, Christians say that each person in the Trinity is God, remember Christians say Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is also God.
So therefore using the Christian Trinity doctrine, that would basically mean that the husband is a family, the wife is a family, and the son is also a family!!!!!!!
In a family we say that the husband wife and son MAKE UP A FAMILLY, we do not say that each specific member of the family is the family!
Just test this out for yourself, go ask any Christian,
is Jesus God, they will immediately say YES!!!!!!!!!! AMENNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!
The Christian will not reply back by saying no Jesus is not God, but Jesus is part of God, you will NEVER hear this reply by a Christian. So therefore the analogy FAILS since the analogy is not even close to Trinity
When you ask a husband are you a family sir?
He will say I HAVE a family and yes I am in a family,
but he will not say yes I am a family.
So Christian Trinitarians have been very deceptive in their analogies and it seems they themselves don’t understand what Trinity even is!
Christians do not say No Jesus is not God, or no the Father is not God, Christians do not say that Jesus and the Father are part of God and make up God,
they say that Jesus IS God, they say that the Father IS God. So the analogy crumbles.
So basically if we want to compare the Trinity to this family analogy, then this means that we should not ask Christians is Jesus God,
We should ask Christians does Jesus have a God, does the Father have a God!
Because the analogy is basically turning God into a family, so therefore this means God is made up of people, and is not one alone person.


A lot of orthodoxies try to figure out the problem of trinity (3x 1) through this example
The sun
The sun = 3x1
1- body
2- light
3- heat

1- SO the question now:
Is the light sun?
No !!
Is the heat sun?
No!!!
They are stemmed from one body, but
they are not independent from the sun
moreover, they don’t have the same qualities of the sun.

The three Devine persons are totally different in the qualities and totally separated from one another. So, how could they be one?!!!!!!!!


We say, the sun is round, hot, and bright, but all of these are just qualities of the sun.
So, Can we say, the heat is son or uncle or father???? !!!

The rays of the sun can be divided into parts if they pass across your fingers, but can God be divided?!!!


2- knowledge + wisdom + inspiration
The same they are not separate bodies, they were for all prophets before Jesus!!!
So, the analogy of the sun is invalid because they are not three bodies like the three Devine Persons; and none of them could be the original body…..

So as you can see, these analogies are so bad and deceptive they cause further problems for a Trinitarian. Trinitarians should simply accept the fact that they worship three Gods, once doing so they will be able to throw this Trinity lie out the window and become a real monotheistic faith.

[Authentic Man]

To be continued
......

[محبة الرحمن]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

جزاك الله خيراً أخي الفاضل

اتمنى أن تثبته و تستكمله وذلك أن هذا الموضوع حجة أكثر المسيحيين

و هو هام جداً و نحتاجه في كل حوار

و جزاك الله كل خير

[ابو علي الفلسطيني]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Sorry to interrupt you brother, but i can't stop my self from saying: may God bless you ... continue cause i am really interested of this great article ..

[Authentic Man]

Question to Trinitarian Christians:

Why, for thousands of years, did none of God's prophets teach his people about the Trinity?
At the least,
would Jesus not use his ability as the Great Teacher to make the Trinity clear to his followers?

Would God inspire hundreds of pages of Scripture and yet not use any of this instruction to teach the Trinity if it were the "central doctrine" of faith?


To be continued

[Authentic Man]

The "God" title in the Bible was given to others:

1- In Isaiah 9:6 and the Old Testament:
Christians claim that since the predicted Prophet's name (Jesus) will be called "Mighty God" in Isaiah 9:6-7, then therefore, he must be GOD Almighty Himself.
Let us read the Verses:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God (EL Gibor), The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with justice and righteousness from hence forth even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. (Isaiah 9:6-7)"

It is quite unfortunate that in the old Jewish culture, people used to be named "Godly" names.
This is quite misleading and deceiving to Christians when they try to define the deity of Jesus.
Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods" (Elohim; plural to El); you are all sons of the Most High.' " "gods" here in Hebrew is "Elohim", which is plural of "EL". It is the same exact thing as "EL" used for Jesus in Isaiah 9:6, since "gods" is a combination of several "EL"s. And as clearly shown here, for someone to be called "god" or "God" in the Bible it wouldn't make him GOD Almighty Himself, the LORD or Jehovah. I also want to point out that any "Son of GOD" in the Bible is a "god" or "God".
1- Jerusalem was called "The LORD our Righteousness". "In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will live in safety. This is the name by which it will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness (Yahweh tsidkenû).' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 33:16)"

2- Abraham called a mountain "The LORD will Provide" (Yahweh Jireh). "So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide (Yahweh Jireh). And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 22:14)"
3- Ezekiel means "Strong God". It also means "Yahweh is Strong God".

4- Elijah. This name is short for EliJehovah or "Eli Yahweh". Eli means my GOD, and Yahweh is the name and title of GOD Almighty in the Bible. Does "Eli Yahweh" or Elijah mean that the person is Jehovah Himself?

5- Israel means "Challenge God", "he struggles with God", or "fight with God". It also means "Defeat God".

6- Gabriel also means "Strong God".

7- Isaiah or Jesaiah, which is short for "Jesa Yahweh" means "Salvation from Yahweh". It could also mean "Salvation".

8- Joshua, which is short for "Josh Yahweh" means "Yahweh Saves".
9- Elli, which is a common name for men before and after Jesus, means "God". Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' " "gods" here in Hebrew is "Elohim", which is plural of "EL". It is the same exact thing as "EL" used for Jesus in Isaiah 9:6, since "gods" is a combination of several "EL"s. And as clearly shown here, for someone to be called "god" or "God" in the Bible it wouldn't make him GOD Almighty Himself, the LORD or Jehovah. I also want to point out that ANY "Son of GOD" in the Bible is a "god" or "God" as clearly shown in Psalm 82:6.
Note:
The trinitarian liars who translate the Bible into English play dirty tricks about capitalizing and lowering the "g" in "God" to prove their trinity lie, while they fully know that it is the same word used for ALL!

10- Immanuel, Emanuel, Emmanuel, Immanuel, or Imanuel are the SAME NAME and are another name for Jesus, means "With us is God". This name is also common for men before and after Jesus.


11- Elihu means "My God is He".

12- Gedaliah means "Jehovah is Great". Again, Gedaliah is short for "Gedal Yahweh". Is the person who was called "Jehovah is Great" GOD Almighty Himself? People before and after Jesus are given this name. See 2 Kings 25:22-24.

13- Eliadah or Eliada means "God knows".

14- Eliab means "my God is Father".

15- Elzaphan means "God is Protector"

16- Eliakim means "God raises".

17- Elisha means "God is Salvation".

18- Eleazar means "God has helped"

19- Judah or Yahawdah means "Praised". It generally means "Praised by Yahweh".

20- Hashabiah means "Jehovah has considered".

21- Mattithiah means "Gift of Jehovah".

22- Michael (nick name "Mike") means "who is like God". Yet, non is like Him, the Almighty. See Exodus 8:10.

23- Jesus, Yahshua, Yeshua or Yashua are the SAME NAME, and mean "Salvation". It doesn't mean "God Saves" as Christians claim. Jesus (Yeshua) means in Hebrew "salvation" and not "God saves". Yud Shin Waw Ain - this name doesn't include the word "God".
In the above examples, we clearly see that the old Jewish culture gave "Godly" titles to people who are not in anyway divine.
Notice
in Isaiah 9:6, it clearly says "and his NAME shall be...." This clearly proves that "Mighty God" is just a name given to the coming Prophet (Jesus). Since this is just a name, this also clearly proves other people in the old Jewish culture were named that name before, even if they're not mentioned in the current Bible.

Have Isaiah 9:6 said "and he will be God Almighty Himself" or "and he will be the God Almighty" then this would be different, because we now would be talking about not just a NAME given to someone, but rather GOD Almighty Himself.

Important Note:
There is not a single Verse in the New Testament where Jesus was called directly or named directly "Mighty God" or "God". Notice in Isaiah 9:6 it clearly says "and his name shall be...." Jesus was called "Son of GOD" as many others in the Bible were called Sons of GOD as shown below in this article, but he never even once was addressed as "Mighty God" or "God", nor he ever claimed to be "Mighty God" or "God".
The Jews believe that Isaiah 9:6 was referring to somebody else, other than Jesus. The Book of Isaiah which obviously contains Isaiah 9:6 came 700 before the birth of Jesus. The Jews had absolutely no problem calling somebody who came 700 years before Jesus "El Gibor (Mighty God)". That person's name is Hezekiah. The Jews believe that Isaiah 9:6 is referring to Hezekiah and not Jesus, and they did indeed address Hezekiah as "Mighty God". This proves that many people before Jesus were named even at birth "El Gibor (Mighty God)", just like people were also named "Ezekiel (Strong God)", "Elli (God)", "Gabriel (Strong God)", etc...

To be continued

[Authentic Man]

Questions to you

From the names above, do you honestly think that "Strong God", "Yahweh is Strong God", "Yahweh Saves", "God", "Yahweh", "My God is He", "God is Salvation", "Jehovah is Great" and "Mighty God" have much differences in their meanings?

I mean, why consider Jesus as GOD Himself, which is a great blasphemy, when he was given a normal "Godly" title that was given to others before him?

If Jesus were named "Jehovah is Great (Gedaliah)" for instance, then we would see Trinitarian Christians trying their best to prove that he is GOD Almighty Himself. Why then not consider the people who were named "Gedaliah" before and after Jesus as GOD Almighty Himself also?
Why not consider these people divine as well?


Important Note:
So if Jesus were named "Michael or Mike (who is like God)", then we would see Trinitarian Christians claim that he is GOD Almighty, since Exodus 8:10 clearly states that there is non like GOD, and yet Jesus (Mike) is like GOD which would without a doubt make him GOD.

Very Important Note:
The reason why the foretold person would be regarded as "Mighty God" is not because he will be GOD Almighty Himself. His name or title being "Mighty God" is nothing but a way to show that the person will be very important and very powerful. He will be like a God on earth because of his Might. I must emphasize that again, the person's "NAME" will be called "Mighty God". Isaiah 9:6 never said that the person will be GOD Almighty Himself, or GOD Almighty will be that person. The word "NAME" means that the name will be just a (misleading) Godly title as many misleading Godly titles were given to others before and after Jesus peace be upon him in the Bible.


". So if he were indeed the foretold person in Isaiah 9:6 (which I personally believe he were), then this means that Jesus peace be upon him is not GOD Almighty, but a powerful Messenger of GOD Almighty or someone who has Might that was chosen by GOD Almighty.

To be continued

[Authentic Man]

Did Jesus ever claim to be "Mighty God" or "God"?


Let us look at John 10:30 "I (Jesus) and the Father are One." This verse is severely misunderstood and is taken out of context, because beginning at verse John 10:23 we read (in the context of 10:30) about Jesus talking to the Jews. In verse John 10:28-30, talking about his followers as his sheep, he states: "...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father who gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are One."
These verses prove only that Jesus and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand.
It does not at all state that Jesus is God's equal in everything.

In fact the words of Jesus, " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL...," in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus.

Also let us look at verse John 17:20-22
"That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE". In this verse, the same word ONE used, the Greek, HEN is used, not only to describe Jesus and the Father but to describe Jesus, the Father and eleven of the twelve disciples of Jesus. So here if that implies equality, we have a unique case of 13 Gods.

Of the verse in question, "I and the Father are One" in (John 10:30), we also need to take note of the verses following the 30th verse in the text. In those verses, the Jews accuse Jesus falsely of claiming to be God by these words. He however replies, proving their accusation wrong by their own text: "The Jews answered him saying,'For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy, and because that thou being a man, makest thyself a God '" (John 10:33).
Jesus replies to this accusation saying: "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your Law, "I said ye are gods. If He can call them gods, unto whom the word of God came, say ye of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world, "Thou blasphemeth," because I said I am the son of God?'" (John 10:34-36).
Let us look at Acts 2:22 "O you men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you..." Peter in the Book of Acts testifies about Jesus.
Jesus thus even to his disciples, as to early Christians, not poisoned by Pauline doctrine, was a man, not a God.

To be continued

[Authentic Man]

The "God" title for Jesus and others in the New Testament

As clearly shown Jesus peace be upon him never claimed to be GOD or anything part of GOD. He never gave the "God" title to himself.


There are however verses in the New Testament that give Jesus the "God" title such as the following:
" 'Return home and tell how much God has done for you.' So the man went away and told all over town how much Jesus had done for him. (From the NIV Bible, Luke 8:39)"

But it is important to know that this "God" title in the New Testament was given to others beside Jesus as well. It is not the unique "The LORD" or "Jehovah" title that was given only to the Father, was given to Jesus. No where in the Bible was Jesus given such title.

Let us look where the "God" title was given to others beside Jesus in the New Testament

they claim that the word "God" with a capital "G" refers to God himself, and the word "god" with small "g" refers to humans. They also claim that they came to this type of translation from the Greek translation. Some lies and discrepancies had been inserted into the Bible through capitalizing the letter "G" when it is supposed to be a small "g" when referring to Jesus:
The following is from the work of Sheikh Ahmed Deedat; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:

Let us look at John 1:1 "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God." This is often presented from the Gospel of John to prove that Jesus was God.

There are however several problems with this claim:
By this verse it is assumed that Jesus was the "word" and since the word was God and became flesh, Jesus is God. The statement that John reproduced in his gospel however was uttered not by John but by A. Philo of Alexandria, years before Jesus or John were born. It is therefore completely unlikely that Philo was even remotely referring to Jesus.

There is also another reason for not capitalizing the "G" in John 1:1, considering the Greek of the above verse which disproves the assertion that Jesus is referred to as God in the verse. In the verse above, the first time the word God is used, the Greek is HOTHEOS (the same exact word given to Satan as God in 2 Corinthians 4:4. The NIV Bible Author wrote "god" for Satan instead of "God"), which means The God. The second time the word God is used,"....and the word was God," the word for God is TONTHEOS, which means "a god". Europeans have evolved a system of capital and small letters non-existent in Greek. The God, HOTHEOS is translated as God with a capital G, whereas Tontheos, which means A or ANY God is translated with a small g, god. In this case however, we see the unlawful translators trying to prove Jesus being God by putting capital G for both whereas it doesn't belong in the case of the "word".
Here is how 2 Corinthians 4:4 is read in the current English translation of the NIV Bible:
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (From the NIV Bible, 2 Corinthians 4:4)"
It should've been written as "The God of this age....." since the same Greek word was used for Jesus in describing him for being a "God".
Let us look at Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' " "gods" here in Hebrew is "Elohim", which is plural of "EL". It is the same exact thing as "EL" used for Jesus in Isaiah 9:6, since "gods" is a combination of several "EL"s. And as clearly shown here, for someone to be called "god" or "God" in the Bible it wouldn't make him GOD Almighty Himself, the LORD or Jehovah. I also want to point out that ANY "Son of GOD" in the Bible is a "god" or "God" as clearly shown in Psalm 82:6.

Note:
The trinitarian liars who translate the Bible into English play dirty tricks about capitalizing and lowering the "g" in "God" to prove their trinity lie, while they fully know that it is the same word used for ALL!

So can we trust the current English Translations then?

Absolutely not!
Given that facts above about verse John 1:1, how can we expect from an ordinary English speaking Christian who wants to spread his religion with all his heart honestly and faithfully to understand this lie of capitalizing the small "g" in John 1:1 and other verses, and not capitalizing the "g" in 2 Corinthians 4:4 for Satan for instance?

Must we allow our faith to be all based on what other authors decide to insert from their own personal views into the Bible?

To be continued

[Authentic Man]

What about "The everlasting Father" title for Jesus? Doesn't that prove he is GOD Almighty?

"Everlasting Father" is different than "Eternal Father". Jesus was never called "eternal" ever in his life. Plus also, King Hezekiah was also called "Everlasting Father" by the Jews. Also, Ezra was called "The Father of Judaism" in Yemen by the Yemenis Jews (Encyclopedia Judaica, Vol. 6, Encyclopedia Judaica Jerusalem, page 1108).

So as we clearly see, it was normal to give Fatherly and Godly names and titles to people in the Old and New Testament days.

Jesus being called "Everlasting Father" doesn't mean anything more than him being a great person and leader. He was the Jews' Messiah.

But most certainly, the title does not make Jesus in any way the Creator of the Universe.