help me in defending Quran

[المشتاقة للرحمن]

الذين يشاهدون محتوى الموضوع الآن : 2 ( الأعضاء 2 والزوار 0)
‏نشوي السماك , ‏ابو علي الفلسطيني


السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
اهلا بك اخي الكريم

[ابو علي الفلسطيني]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
يبدو ان هذا الشخص يتصف بالغباء اختي الفاضلة بدليل انه يصر على هذا النقطة ويتجاوز كم الاخطاء الهائلة التي في الانجيل. وهنا ان شاء الله اجمل الرد عليه باختصار

it seems that there is a problem in your mind that you can't understnd what is right from what is wrong.
you need to understand that the bible is not the God's word which were revealed for the disciples.
first, how can i justify the wrong facts that the bible contain. shall i say that these wrong facts was from God? does God make mistakes in these revelation?
impossiple.
you must kmow that God the almighty NEVER and NEVER speaks to his people directly.
God revealed the Holy Quran for Mohammad (pbuh) through an angel"the holy spirit" but the bible wasn't revealed to the disciples not by God him self and not even by an angel.
the bible was written by the disciples themselves that is why it contains so many mistakes because God the almighty NEVER makes mistakes in his words.
the bible contains many shamful things that NEVER can be God's words.
you know what is the difference between the bible and the Holy Quran?
the difference is that the Holy Quran is the true God's words revealed to Mohammad (pbuh) by the angel, but the bible is MAN-MADE verses.
It's quite obvious that the Bible is more like a man made cultural book than a divine book that is meant to be for all times and all places. Anyway, the Bible was not even written by its original authors. That is why you see things such as "And Moses went up to the mountain...." instead of "And I [Moses] went up to the mountain....", or "And Jesus said to Matthew...." instead of "And Jesus said to me [Matthew]...." Most of the Books and Gospels of the Bible were written by third party people that were not even chosen by GOD, which makes the Bible just a cultural history book rather than a divine book from GOD Almighty

.
هنا يتضح الامر ان الانجيل ليس كلمة الله التي قالها مباشرة للانسان وان القران الكريم هو بالفعل كلمة الله الموحى بها الى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم
ولكي يتضح الامر اكثر وتستطيعي اختي الفاضلة سد المنافذ عليه اطلبي منه ان يكون الحوار حول مصداقية الانجيل واطلبي منه الدليل على ان الانجيل هو كلام الله وان يكون الحديث حول مصداقية كتابهم وان استطعتي دعوته هنا للمنتدى فسيكون هذا جيد جدا
حياك الله

[المشتاقة للرحمن]

اخي الكريم
جزاك الله كل الخير

يمكنني ان اطلب منه ان اعطيك الايميل بتاعه وان يراسلك لو ارادت
لكن اعتقد انه سيمانع دخول المنتدي ع الاقل لان تصميم المنتدي باللغة العربية التي يجهلها

فما رايك في ذلك
ارجو الرد سريعا

[ابو علي الفلسطيني]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Quote

يمكنني ان اطلب منه ان اعطيك الايميل بتاعه وان يراسلك لو ارادت

انا عندي مشكلة كبيرة في الماسنجر اختي الفاضلة ان شاء الله احلها قريبا
على اية حال اعرضي عليه النقاش حول كتابه المقدس ومصداقيته وسنرى كيف سيرد
حياك الله

[المشتاقة للرحمن]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته .

لقد ارسلت له الرد التالي بناءا علي ردودكم الجميلة
جزاكم الله كل الخير جميعا

واليكم ردي الاتي:




Hi, Rod

how r you ?
i wish you are fine.
before anything i`d like to tell you something important;

how long we live , we will die one day......and we agree -me & you- that afterdeath , there will be the day of judgment.
and only one religion of all religions in the world is true , and its followers will be the winner and will be saved from endless pains in hell.
i`d like you to think deeply in that thing.
for me , or you , or any reasonable man, it`s important to be sure hundred percent of the religion , you follow ...coz one day , it`ll lead us to be saved or to be in hell forever.
so our target must not be just to argue the other side, and to win the challenge.... but to know the truth.
so a reasonable one is not to neglect any doubts or unclear issues in his religion.
so if u were asked a question in your religion , and not find good answer to satisfy your mind , you must search , dear brother in huminity.
For me, i was born a muslim girl....but i didn`t like to have an inherited religion, so i was to search in my Quran and in other books to prove to myself that i`m following the true path.
so for me , when i`ve something with no answer in Islam , i didn`t neglect and pass it ,BUT i search to find an answer to satisfy my mind, coz i don`t like to follow anything blindly.

i respect your mind and belief, but i don`t like your way in escaping answering me in issues proving that you follower of wrong path.
please try to find answer even only for yourself in what i had asked you to ansewr before.
you still insisting to escape replying on my e mail concerning contradictions and faults in Bible.

and my answer on your e mail is the following:

you need to understand that the bible is not the God's word which were revealed for the disciples.
first, how can i justify the wrong facts that the bible contain. shall i say that these wrong facts was from God? does God make mistakes in these revelation?
impossiple.
you must kmow that God the almighty NEVER and NEVER speaks to his people directly.
God revealed the Holy Quran for Mohammad (pbuh) through an angel"the holy spirit" but the bible wasn't revealed to the disciples not by God him self and not even by an angel.
the bible was written by the disciples themselves that is why it contains so many mistakes because God the almighty NEVER makes mistakes in his words.
the bible contains many shamful things that NEVER can be God's words.
you know what is the difference between the bible and the Holy Quran?
the difference is that the Holy Quran is the true God's words revealed to Mohammad (pbuh) by the angel, but the bible is MAN-MADE verses.
It's quite obvious that the Bible is more like a man made cultural book than a divine book that is meant to be for all times and all places.
Anyway, the Bible was not even written by its original authors. That is why you see things such as "And Moses went up to the mountain...." instead of "And I [Moses] went up to the mountain....", or "And Jesus said to Matthew...." instead of "And Jesus said to me [Matthew]...." Most of the Books and Gospels of the Bible were written by third party people that were not even chosen by GOD, which makes the Bible just a cultural history book rather than a divine book from GOD Almighty.


also i`d like to tell that Jesus accaused his dicsiples as uneducated people "Do you still not understand" matthew16:8
Also he accaused them of "unbelevers" as it is mentioned here "he told them it was because of your little faith" matthew17:19
Also when Jesus was cruciefied his dicsiples ran away. "then all the disciples left him and fled"matthew26:56
after all how can i trust those disciples after they left jesus??? how can i accept the massage of christianity from those students who were unfaithful to their "lord"
moreover, it was mentioned in the bible that jesus had brothers. "isn't this the carpenter the son pf mary and brother of james , joses,judas and simon? mark 6:3
if jesus had brothers are they "gods"like him or not? did Mary have birth after jesus was born?
it was also mentioned that "Again,the divel took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world"matthew4:8
is their a mountain in the world that if i stand on it i will see all the kingdoms and the countries of the world?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

who wrote the first verse and who wrote the second one:
1-Genesis 17:13 “13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant”
2-Galatians 5 “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

[Here Paul is saying:” I paul not, God say or, the Holy spirit say, or i say inspired by the Holy spirit, But a clear I say, and he said what? he changed the covenant of God.” While God said:
Judges 2:1 “and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.”
Deuteronomy 7:9 “Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations”

Another thing is the use of the third person instead of the first:
Deuteronomy 34:5-10 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
6And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.
7And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
8And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.
9And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the LORD commanded Moses.
10And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,

Is this the Torah that prophet Moses received in the 40 days, does Moses describes his death and what happened after his death, and why should Moses say: “Moses was” “e buried him” “the Lord commanded Moses”.
Matthew 9:9 “And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him”.
Why should Mathew say “he saw a man, named Matthew” and “and he saith unto him”. The writer I both verses must be an outsider narrator.
Another thing is these strange salutes of Paul that are posted inside the Bible as the word of God:

Romans 16
3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus
6 Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us.
8 Greet Amplias my beloved in the Lord.
9 Salute Urbane, our helper in Christ, and Stachys my beloved.
10 Salute Apelles approved in Christ. Salute them which are of Aristobulus' household.
11 Salute Herodion my kinsman. Greet them that be of the household of Narcissus, which are in the Lord.
12 Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord.
13 Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.
14 Salute Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermas, Patrobas, Hermes, and the brethren which are with them.
15 Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.
16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
21 Timotheus my workfellow, and Lucius, and Jason, and Sosipater, my kinsmen, salute you.
22I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in the Lord.
A First Question andi`m insisting on it, are those Salutes words of God?
Second what divine significance do these salutes and greetings mean?
What is the importance or the lessons beyond these greetings?

also please try to find answer for what i`ve showed you before of proofs against Bible.
please don`t escape from that.
your fault in talking about Islam , that you are using a wrong source to critize it.
please when you want to critize Islam, don`t use ur Bible coz i don`t believe in it , and coz you couldn`t find any reply for proofs against it , which i`ve sent you before... although these proofs are only very small part of my proofs.

with my best wishes,

[ابو علي الفلسطيني]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

رد مفحم وجميل اختنا الفاضلة

واطلبي منه ايضا ان يثبت لنا ان الانجيل هو كلام الله فعلا الذي تحدث به الى تلاميذ المسيح مباشرة وما دليله على ذلك
وعندها سنفاجئه بكم الاخطاء التي يحتويها هذا الكتاب والتي نسبوها زورا وبهتانا الى الله تعالى

[مسلم عن حق]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته .
رد جميل أختنا, و لكنك وقعتى فى خطأ غير مقصود عندما قلتى:

Quote

you must kmow that God the almighty NEVER and NEVER speaks to his people directly

لأن الله تكلم إلى سيدنا موسى مباشرة كما نعرف جيدا, و تكلم أيضا مباشرة و من دون حجاب إلى أشرف الخلق :salla-s: فى ليلة الإسراء و المعراج. و لكى منى أجمل تحية, ز نحن دائما موجودين إن شاء الله.
جزاك الله كل خير.

[ابو علي الفلسطيني]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Quote

رد جميل أختنا, و لكنك وقعتى فى خطأ غير مقصود عندما قلتى:

اقتباس



you must kmow that God the almighty NEVER and NEVER speaks to his people directly





لأن الله تكلم إلى سيدنا موسى مباشرة كما نعرف جيدا, و تكلم أيضا مباشرة و من دون حجاب إلى أشرف الخلق فى ليلة الإسراء و المعراج. و لكى منى أجمل تحية, ز نحن دائما موجودين إن شاء الله.

حياك الله اخي الحبيب مسلم عن حق
صحيح ان الله تعالى كلم موسى عليه السلام ولكن المقصود هنا هو الوحي بالرسالات السماوية والكتب السماوية
اما قصة سيدنا موسى عليه السلام كليم الله فهي تعتبر استثناء
جزاك الله خيرا اخي الفاضل

[المشتاقة للرحمن]

جزاكم الله كل خير جميعا
واستكمالا لموافاتكم بالايميلات التي يرسلها وارسلها
اليكم الايميل الذي رد به علي ايميلي
وطبعا كالعادة احب ان اعرف ردودكم عليه قبل ان اصيغ الردواترككم الان مع ردهThank you for your response and than you for all the time you were nice enough to share your thoughts and words with me. It was very interesting and enjoyed your insights. I see that you are a thinking person although unable to see that you will not enter the Kingdom of God, because you refuse to accept Jesus Christ.

All of your questions are based on confusion and a lack of understanding of what you are reading when you read the Bible but instead of realizing this ignorance you and those like you assume its some sort of mistake. Even the verse you stated, about Jesus being shown all the Kingdoms of the World from a Mountain top, you ask which Mountain shown all the Kingdoms of the World? But you fail to notice verse one of Matthew 4:


Matthew 4
1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Jesus was led up of the Spirit...this was not a physical leading but a spiritual leading and in the Spirit much more is possible, but you fail to recognize this, fail to comprehend this but rather than attempt to understand its meaning you automatically condemn it as confirmation that the Bible is corrupted.

In my work I do networking and we have very particular terms we use, for example if I say to you that for a unique spanning tree group on a tagged interface you will be required to supply a tagged BPDU VID value associated with the spanning tree group. You may have no idea what I am talking about but does it make my statements false or untrue simply because you don't understand what is being said? Of course not, yet this is what the you and the rest of the Muslim world continue to do so to your embarrassment. Although I think you are a nice young lady and very intelligent you have not used the analytical stills you have learned during your years of learning, and I am disappointed by this very much.

You accuse me of avoiding your question when the fact of the matter is I realize this is becoming pointless now. Your questions are no more than basic uninformed misunderstanding of what you are reading and nothing more, and yet you did point out that 40,000 is not 4,000 but you fail to see is changes nothing of significance and you fail to comprehend that no one although given the opportunity attempted to correct it whatsoever, which as I pointed out really says more to the integrity of the Bible than the mistake itself. No one dared correct the mistake that was discovered in the Bible for fear of adding or taking away from what was written, when you see God you can ask him why this is so.

And more major you fail to understand that Islam really has no right or authority to challenge the Bible yet they do, you say you don't believe it, and that well and good, for nether do we believe your book, but then you go on to say we cant use the Bible to prove that Islam is not from God. And I already told you that it is the Bible alone that proves without any misgivings whatsoever that not only is Islam not from God but is actually the work of the Father of all lies without any question.

So where do we go from here?

Well although I enjoy our discussion, I no longer want to continue this because I don't see the point, you fail to see the simple so how will you understand the complex. You mock what Jesus came and did for all man kind, you fail to see that you are in sin, you fail to see that your questions are base on a lack of understanding except for one question so far, yet from this lack of understanding you what to discount the entire Bible as false which is just outrageous, You admit that you do not believe anything in the Bible yet you ask questions from the Bible, why do you do this, do you think you are mocking Christians you are mocking God my dear friend not me or any other human. I told you that its impossible to use the Bible to disprove God or Jesus yet you continue to do so, what does that tell you. Well it tells me that you don't get it at all and you may never get it and you will not be the first or the last as of yet.

So do you think you are going to prove to me that my Bible is corrupted? Is this the point you are attempting to make? I assume it is and you desperately want me to realize this, therefore you accuse me of trying to escape your questions. You seem to be intelligent and I am a bit intelligent myself and I don't like to constantly repeat myself and you my dear as much as I admire you will not be able to convince me that the Bible is corrupted whatsoever but you have so far convinced me that your concept of the True God as known through Jesus Christ and Christ alone is very corrupted indeed. So not to worry you have made a point but it may not be exactly the way you intended.

So we can be friends exchanging friendly thoughts from time to time but I dont see the point in continuing this dialog any longer because its fruitless, and frushtrating at some level. I particualry don't appreciate you mocking the Word of God or Christians for beliving (as God requires) what they read in the Bible. You fault the Christians for Beliving the Word of God, just like men have done from the time of Jesus, Muslims are no better than those who spat and beat Jesus yet you ask me how was this possible? You would do the same and you dont even realze it!!!! How shocking is that, you are no better than those who did what you say dont believe was done in the Bible! How could God allow men to spit and beat God... why so God can convict men of their wickedness! Because we did it to Him and for what? What did Jesus do to deserve this treatment by men, the same treatment that you would do, what was he guilty of, he was guilty of proclaiming the Word of God to men, and he was dispised for it, heated for it, and just like you many did not believe, yet Jesus said the temple would be distroyed and was the temple distroyed or not and Jesus sent Paul to the gentiles (those like me) and did Paul deliver the word to the people like me and effectivly so ...

So with all this you still fail to see that Thy Will be done in Earth as it is in Heaven! They killed Jesus due to their unbelife yet I am talking to you today about the Jesus they Killed how is that possible? I am telling you today that Jesus rose from the dead but I am doing so today, how is that possible are we all so crazy in this World, it the Power of the Living God. This will never be stopped not by you or anyone until God the Father makes thy enemies thy foot stool for Jesus Christ.

Paul said this and I too will say this and we will leave it at that:

1 Corinthians 2:2 (King James Version)

2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.



So I dont know anything beyond Jesus Christ and him crucified so please only ask me questions about Jesus Christ or I will not answer the questions!

You have a good day and take care,



Rod

[المشتاقة للرحمن]

How are you, now I will keep my promise about responding to questons on Christ and Christ alone!

also i`d like to tell that Jesus accaused his dicsiples as uneducated people "Do you still not understand" matthew16:8
Also he accaused them of "unbelevers" as it is mentioned here "he told them it was because of your little faith" matthew17:19
Also when Jesus was cruciefied his dicsiples ran away. "then all the disciples left him and fled"matthew26:56
after all how can i trust those disciples after they left jesus??? how can i accept the massage of christianity from those students who were unfaithful to their "lord"

Good question!!!

But a question that actually proves that Jesus Christ is Lord!

The disciples ran away like scared men who themselves did not want to be captured by the Romans and crucified, they were afraid to die and I suspect despite all that they saw they still did not get it, which is what we read in Matthew 16:87 and Matthew 17:19. So lets picture the situation they were unsure of what to do next because the man they were following was captured and will be crucified and was crucified and died...Notice when the change came over them... ONLY after the risen Christ appeared to them and they same the risen Christ for themselves then they KNEW WITHOUT ANY QUESTION NOW THAT JESUS CHRIST IS IN FACT GOD! So all those men who ran away and was afraid became BOLD men of GOD, the transformation of these men is what is important, what but the appearance of Jesus alive would make these men BOLD to the point of death for them all. All these scared men went on to die for Jesus Christ Boldly!





moreover, it was mentioned in the bible that jesus had brothers. "isn't this the carpenter the son pf mary and brother of james , joses,judas and simon? mark 6:3
if jesus had brothers are they "gods"like him or not? did Mary have birth after jesus was born?


Well to this question I ask you what does it say in the Bible does it say they were Gods like him or not. Obviously they were not, so why do you ask the question. Jesus was born of a virgin to do the Will of God the Father after Jesus's Birth Mary was to have other children as normal yet Jesus was unique and His blood was unique. The blood of Jesus never mixed that that of Mary for the blood of the child in the mother whom does not mix with that of the mother and as we know each of us have blood that is from both our mother and father except that of Jesus his blood was unique, because he did not have a Earthy father therefore He did not share in our blood line, where as all of Mary's other children blood did. Even on the Shroud of Turin they have said the blood which is human blood of a man crucified and the blood is still red (I have pointed this shroud out to you many times yet you fail to discover anything about it) how is it possible for almost 2000 years for the blood to still be red? Jesus Blood was unique, Jesus was unique unlike any other man on Earth way more than a prophet as some label him. The image in the shroud is that of Jesus Christ, but how is that possible for how can a dead man leave an image in a burial Linen and no other burial linen found has an image in it and the linen is as described in the Bible (some say is corrupted) the microscopic evidence indicate that the linen came from a cave as stated in the Bible and that limestone on the linen only comes from caves found in Israel and some of the pollen found in the linen only grows in Israel and only during a certain time of year. Now these are the facts yet Muslims refuse to find out Muslims are not interested in truth but the perpetuation of their ideas. Muslims are not interested in discovering that in FACT the Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead, the Shroud of Turin testified to not only to the accuracy of the corrupted Bible as the Muslim call it but also to the resurrection of Jesus Christ yet you DEAR challenge the Bible.

You are intelligent or so the claim is, so what then is the Shroud of Turin, you tell me? And who might that be we see the image of? Is it a Mexican guy or what, who is that and how did he die and does it conform to what was written in the Bible or not? And what about all the other linen found how about any other images are there any and who faked this thing and what is the implication?

How come an informed Muslim knows nothing about this, and how come the informed Muslim have nothing to say about it? The Muslim cannot deal with the Truth of Jesus Christ for just like the crazed Christians have been saying all along Islam cannot possibly be true!

Tell me about the Shroud if you can?