Trinity and development of doctorine

[3abd Arahman]

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As mentioned before, according to the arabic language a god is anything or any person that is worshipped, so if some people worship Mary, then they take her as a god even if they don't say directly that she is God. The catholics worship Mary so this means they take her a god.
As you can see, that I've been using the expression ( As mentioned before) several times because you argue about things that I have answered before without addressing my answer.
As you can see also, your point is completely gainsaid but you just don't want to admit this.
Catholics say that they don't consider virgin Mary to be God, but if you read their books you will find that some of their bishops considered Mary divine.
Let me paste what I said before :

And as usual, you just didn't bother any of these quotes or the youtube

The video wouldn't come up for me. My friend it is possible for people to worship someone and not consider them a god; Isn't that what Muslims do with Islam's prophet? I know of no one who took Mary for God. If Allah meant worshipped he should have said that. If Mary were considered God, Allah would have had to say "Say not four" instead of three, because the Holy Spirit is the third person of God's tri unity. Do you see the blatant discrepancy? So, Islam is in part a religion that is reacting to its misconceptions of Christianity.

Burninglight, you just want to argue about clear issues.

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My friend it is possible for people to worship someone and not consider them a god; Isn't that what Muslims do with Islam's prophet?

This ridiculous claim shows that you know nothing about Islam.
We don't worship prophet Muhammad Pbuh at all, we only worship God.
Read this Hadith :
- اللَّهمَّ لا تَجعَلْ قَبري وثنًا يُعبَدُ

الراوي: أبو هريرة المحدث: الألباني - المصدر: غاية المرام - الصفحة أو الرقم: 126
خلاصة حكم المحدث: صحيح

English translation :
Abu Hurraira narrated that the messenger of God Pbuh said : ( OGod don't let my grave be a worshipped statue)

We don't worship prophet Muhammad Pbuh, we don't ask him to forgive our sins or to let us enter paradise or to save us from hell or to cure us from diseases, we just believe that prophet Muhammad Pbuh is a normal man who died and who was selected by God to be his messenger to mankind, worshipping Prophet Muhammad Pbuh is just like worshipping statues

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The video wouldn't come up for me.

You should change the browser you are using to be able to see it
Here is the link

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Paste the link but omit spaces and hopefully you will be able to watch the video

Yet, you didn't even try to answer the quotes that show that some bishops in the Catholic church considered Mary to be God or equal to God
I'll paste them again, maybe you will bother to answer them this time

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Read this :
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/omnip.htm

Here are some quotes from this link


[pg. 416]
Hence St.George, Archbishop of Nicomedia, says, O great Mother of God: "Thou hast insuperable [unsurpassable] strength, since the multitude of our sins does not outweigh thy clemency.Nothing resists thy power, for the Creator regards thy honor as his own. ..


[pg. 419]
Let us always have recourse to this divine Mother, who knows not how to let any one who invokes her aid depart without consolation, says Blosius. ...
[pg. 421]
Every little act of devotion is sufficient to secure the patronage of this divine Mother. ...


[pg. 16]
27. Inasmuch as grace perfects nature, and glory perfects grace, it is certain that Our Lord is still, in Heaven, as much the Son of Mary as He was on earth; and that, consequently, He has retained the obedience and submission of the most perfect Child toward the best of all mothers. But we must take great pains not to conceive this dependence as any abasement or imperfection in Jesus Christ. For Mary is infinitely below her Son, who is God, and therefore she does not command Him as a mother here below would command her child who is below her. Mary, being altogether transformed into God by grace and by the glory which transforms all the saints into Him, asks nothing, wishes nothing, does nothing contrary to the eternal and immutable will of God. When we read that in the writings of Sts. Bernard, Bernardine, Bonaventure and others that in Heaven and on earth everything, even God Himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God has been well pleased to give her is so great that [pg. 17] it seems as if she had the same power as God; and that her prayers and petitions are so powerful with God that they always pass for commandments with His Majesty, who never resists the prayer of His dear Mother, because she is always humble and conformed to His will.

28. In the Heavens Mary commands the angels and the blessed. As a recompense for her profound humility, God has empowered her and commissioned her to fill with saints the empty thrones from which the apostate angels fell by pride. The will of the Most High, who exalts the humble (Lk. 1:52), is that Heaven, earth and Hell bend, with good will or bad will, to the commandments of the humble Mary,whom He has made sovereign of Heaven and earth, general of His armies, treasurer of His treasures, dispenser of His graces, worker of His greatest marvels, restorer of the human race, Mediatrix of men, the exterminator of the enemies of God, and the faithful companion of His grandeurs and triumphs.

According to these quotes, Virgin Mary's honour is like God's honour, God is subject to her, she is the divine mother, and finally she transformed into God
How can you understand these quotes?
If someone says that Mary transformed into God, then he is surely considering her God

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I know of no one who took Mary for God.

You don't know but I know and I mentioned what they said several times and you are just not bothering to answer these quotes and you are just continuing to claim that no one considered virgin Mary to be God !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is just a waste of time

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If Allah meant worshipped he should have said that.

Well as I told you, in the arabic language anything or person that is worshipped by some people is a god.
For example in arabic we say that a cow is a god for the Hindus, however Hindus just worship cows but they don't say frankly that cows are God who created them
I hope you got the point
Yet, regarding virgin Mary, some Catholics consider her to be God although they deny this but it's present in their books

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If Mary were considered God, Allah would have had to say "Say not four" instead of three, because the Holy Spirit is the third person of God's tri unity.

Simply because God is saying in this verse what the Christians say.
Although some Christians worship virgin Mary and although some of them even consider her equal to God, yet they say that there are 3 persons in the Godhead not 4.
I think the answer is clear but you just want to argue.

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No, Allah didn't say a third like you slice candy in thirds. He was clear, and any one can logically infer what was truthfully meant. "Did you say take you and your mother for two gods besides me?" that makes Allah the third person in his question and later Allah confirms by saying "They do disbelieve who call Allah the third of three" He didn't say a third which is not what Christianity teaches anyway.

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They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve (Sura 5:73)

The order he said is as clear as crystal 1. son, 2. mother, 3. father/Allah
Look carefully, "Did you say take you and your mother for two gods besides me?" 1, 2 & the third of 3. I know you can see this so being obtuse or using semantics is lame and cannot get you out of it or make the verse work the way you want to believe.

Allah said the third not a third of three. Besides, if someone wanted to say a third of the whole, there is not a need to say a third of three. Just saying a third is sufficient to know that a third is one third of three parts, but clearly he didn't say a third ; he said the third. Semantics doesn't work friend, nice try. So you could've convince me and no cigar for you. Again, Catholicism and Biblical Christianity does not believe God is a third. So who was Allah referring to. No one believes in the inferred trinity described by Islam's god or messenger. We all believe God is one. Jesus is not a third of God; He is the word of God, and God is the Holy Spirit!

Burninglight, you are just grasping straws.
You are just building conclusions upon your own understanding and your understanding is wrong.
God said ( Don't say three) because Christians say that there are 3 persons in the Godhead.
God will ask Jesus Pbuh during judgement day whether he told people to take him and his mother as 2 gods, because some Christians worship Mary, some of them even consider her God.
Actually there is nothing in the Quran to say that Mary is a part of the trinity except your conclusions.
Also some early christians called Mariamites, believed that the trinity is the Father, Mary and Jesus.
Read this :
http://discover-the-truth.com/2013/0...pped-as-a-god/
I'll paste the important parts :

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There is vast amount of evidence from the Church Fathers that, there was a certain sect in Arabia that believed the Trinity consisted of: “Father, the Son and Virgin Mary.”
1. George Sale

“This notion of the divinity of the virgin Mary was also believed by some at the council of Nice, who said there two gods besides the Father, viz., Christ and the Virgin Mary, and were thence named Mariamites. Others imagined her to be exempt from humanity, and deified; which goes but little beyond the Popish superstition in calling her the compliment of the Trinity, as if it were imperfect with her. This foolish imagination is justly condemned in the Koran as idolatrous….” [1]

2. Reverend Gilbert Reid D.D.

“As to Christianity as it was represented in Arabia, it was not a clear untarnished theism, but tritheism. The Heavenly Father, Mary the mother of God and Jesus their son, were WORSHIPPED as three Gods, and their images appeared in the churches along with the images of other saints. Christianity as taught by Christ had lost its identity in the formalism and errors of the church of Arabia. Still more the truths pro-claimed by God through all the ages had been lost sight amid the vain imaginings of men’s hearts. The only God of, an omnipresent spirit, without form or body. The reformation of Mohammed was thus a return to the first and second commandment of the Prophet Moses, which Jesus himself had taught.” [2]

3. Washington Irving

“The Mariamites, or worshippers of Mary, regarded the Trinity as consisting of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Virgin Mary. The Collydrians were a sect of Arabian Christians, composed chiefly of females. They worshipped the Virgin Mary as possessed of divinity…..” [3]

4. English theologian Theophilus Lindsey writes:

“The followers of Christ had been for some ages quarrelling and destroying each other in their heat’s and disputes, not concerning the Supreme Father of all, to whom they paid little attention; but about the nature of Christ. And of the Holy Spirit, and many other objects of worship, which they invented. (t) The notion of the divinity of the Virgin Mary was believed by some even at the council of Nice: who said there were two gods besides the Father, viz. Christ and the Virgin Mary, and were thence names Mariamites. Others imagined her to be exempt from humanity, and deified: which goes but little beyond the Popish superstition, in calling her the complement of the Trinity….” [4]

5. William Cook Taylor

“In Arabia itself some of the worst heresies were propagated: the chief of these were the heresies of the Ebonites, the Nazareans, and the Collydrians, the last of which derived its name from the collyris, or twisted cake offered by them to the Virgin Mary, whom they worshipped as a deity. It is known to all readers of ecclesiastical history that a sect called Mariamites exalted the Virgin to a participation in the Godhead, and that writers of the Romish Church have named her the ‘complement of the Trinity.’….” [5]

6. John Holmes

“….Jacobites, so called from Jacobus, Bishop of Edessa in Syria, and whose doctrine, directly contrary to that of the Nestorians in one point, denied the double nature of Christ in his state of incarnation: Mariamites, so called because they worshipped the Virgin Mary, and regarded her as, along with the Father, and the Son one of the persons of the Divine Trinity…. “[6]

7. John Henry Blunt D.D. :

“In Accordance with which are the statements of certain writers, logically in agreement with the worship they advocate, that St. Mary has been assumed into the Trinity, so as to make it a quaternity, that Mary is the ‘compliment of the Trinity.’” [7]

8. Allan Freer

Nestorians, so called from their founder, Nestorius, Bishop of Constantinople and whose heresy consisted in a recondite distinction between Jesus the man, and Christ the God-man; Jacobites, so-called from Jacobus, Bishop of Edessa in Syria, and whose doctrine directly contrary to that of the Nestorians in one point, denied the double nature of Christ in his state of incarnation: Mariamites, so-called because they worshipped the virgin Mary, and regarded her as, along with the Father and the Son, One of the persons of the divine Trinity: and collydrians, a sect guilty of similar heresy, and deriving their name from their practice of offering to the virgin Mary a particular kind of cake, called Collyris.[8]

9. John William Draper

In the east, in consequence of the policy of the court of Constantinople, the Church had been torn in pieces by contentions and schisms. Among a countless host of disputants may be mentioned Arians, Basilidians, Carpocritains, Collydrians, Eutychians, Gnostics, Jacobites, Marcionites, Marionites, Nestorians, Sabellians, Vallentians. Of these the ; the Collydrians worshipped the Virgin as a divinity, offering her sacrifices of cakes…. [9]

We can see from all the references quoted, that Mary was indeed believed to be part of the Trinity, by certain Christian sects of Arabia.

Hope this brings your argument to an end


Am also surprised about your argument about ( the third of three) or ( a third of three)
You just say that God the Father (Allah) is a person from 3 persons in the Godhead